More on universal health

Anyway, I will just go off on my soapbox once again. Sorry, Tony, I know we have completely opposite views (which is probably why you live in Texas and I ended up in France!), but your post really caused me to react but I love you anyway!

I keep asking myself this question: why in the world should you have to work to have the right to decent (and I say decent because try going to a free clinic in the poorest parts of any big city and I don't think a majority of the readers who have access to my blog would classify the care as decent) healthcare? Whether you work or not, everyone should be granted free and DECENT healthcare. I have never, in 7 years, had to even question where I go to get medical help- anywhere you go here, whether it be the doctor across the street or on the other side of town, the hospital in our neighborhood or a hospital in the S. of France, everywhere has the exact same quality of care and I'm covered, there's no hospital trying to make more money, or a hospital that got a huge donation from a huge oil company etc.

One summer, E and I were home in the US and I got a really bad and painful ear infection. I went to see my parents' general practitioner and he responded "Well, since you don't have insurance in this country, I'm going to have to make you pay more but I'll chip in the 200 dollar prescription and give you some samples instead". Guess how much I paid for one, 15 min. visit? 125 dollars for him to look in my ear and tell me I had a sinus and ear infection and needed antibiotics. Am I the only one here thinking this is a little ridiculous (as well as paying 200 dollars for a prescription?) And, I do believe this amount of money was the subject of the first fight between E and I, his argument being I should have never gone to the doctor and just stuck it out. Well, if we, a semi middle-class couple, are contemplating paying that much for our health, I can't imagine the thousands like us in the US who ask themselves everyday if they risk their health because it costs too much, because they aren't among the privileged whose jobs provide healthcare. When did healthcare become a business?

We pay a lot of taxes here in France, sure, but even what we have now, we don't need. In theory, all we "need" is food and shelter and good health. Why do we "need" the money we're giving the government? Why do we "need" more money in our pockets? To buy fancy cars? To go on expensive vacations? To live in a brand new house? To stay in expensive hotels? To go out to eat every night? Or, to have the simple choice of whether you want to use that extra money on your health or on a brand new car, because to some people, that's what it comes down to, it's a choice. And, unfortunately our Western society puts enough pressure on the individual to value the car over your health. Isn't it ironic in the end that it's all about the money, no matter how you look at it?

Health shouldn't be all about money. In fact, we have so many worries, our existence and how we survive shouldn't be one of them!

I love America and I love the United States and as an American citizen, this is what I want to see changed more than anything in my country. The US is ranked 37th in the world for its healthcare system and I happen to live in and also be a citizen of a country whose healthcare system is ranked number one in the world. Why shouldn't the US be up there, they're powerful enough to spend years in Iraq but not powerful enough to have the number one healthcare system in the world? When I bring my children home to their country, I want to know that we will be taken care of, that if Gab falls and breaks his leg, we won't have to ask our own health insurance in France to bring us back to France for care (which they will do for free) just because we aren't among the privileged few. Not only is this bad for the environment with the fossil fuels it entails to make an extra trip back home for healthcare but there's no reason why a country of which you are a citizen shouldn't take care of you.

But, those are my beliefs and perhaps if I lived in the US right now I would be thinking differently. I do, after all, live over here where universal healthcare has been around for awhile and where the society completely accepts it. Maybe it wouldn't work in the US? Then again, if I were a single mother whose husband left her raising two tiny children working three jobs that don't provide healthcare and having to choose each month between rent, food and healthcare for my children, I'd sure want the leader of my country to give it a try.

Comments

[Tony]

So where do we stop? If you don't have to work to get free healthcare, Should you have to work to get free housing? What about free education? Free living expenses? A free car? If you don't want to worry about where you're getting your healthcare, should you have to worry about putting food on the table? Putting gas in your car? Some people like giving all their money to the government so they can then give it to those who don't want to work. I am not one of those people. If you CAN'T work, the government should take care of you. If you can work, but just want the government to take care of you. My advice is to get a job.

[Lauren]

Just get a job? It's not that simple. Several years ago I had a full time job teaching at a small private school. It was a great position for me but offered no health insurance. I had to pay a huge amount of money to buy a crappy individual plan.
I think we need to find a middle ground b/w what we have now, which works for a lot of people, and something like what France has. Just my 2 cents!

[Jessica]

I totally agree with you. My husband is self employed and we pay for our health insurance and care out of pocket. It costs a fortune to insure a family. Some things get neglected, like dental care. I haven't been to the dentist in a year and 1/2. We don't like to go to the doctor for preventative care, because one visit costs $140. Even when we're sick, we often don't go.

People who have jobs with health benefits are indeed lucky, and often short sighted. Many employers are cutting health benefits as they get more expensive. Ask someone who pays out of pocket how they feel about universal healthcare.

And did you know that you can be refused insurance? If you have the slightest medical history, you may well be refused. These companies absolutely scrutinize your medical history to see if you "worth" insuring. My good friend, who also must pay out of pocket as her husbands small employer can't afford to offer benefits, who also had a small health problem in the past, was refused insurance. Then what's the solution?

Meanwhile insurers make huge profits. Does it need to be a profitable business? It seems all that gets us is over- priced, sub-standard care, and a quicker trip to the grave.

[Alison]

@ Tony:

For those of us who have lived in France this is how we see health care. It ought to be "free" in the US, just as these things are:

K-12 Education
Police
Fire
Infrastructure

Thanks.

[Alison]

Also, Andie! Great post!

[andie]

Oh and here's another thought. Maybe E and I need to start looking for summer jobs right now for when we come back to the US next summer because, after all, we're lazy and don't have summer jobs, therefore, healthcare. Then again, the only jobs we could find in the summer are jobs that probably wouldn't provide health insurance. Tony, do you know of anyone in the Houston area who is hiring for next summer? We are uninsured and apparently lazy because we don't have jobs.

[karina]

Great post!!
Alison: Libraries as well. :-)
I can't even understand why people can think that denying someone the basics like healthcare is possible. I mean should we have 2 different police forces?? 1 that is private and 1 government run? Imagine this:

911: "Hello, 911 how may I help you?"

Caller: "Help! There is someone trying to break into my house, I think he has a gun!"

911: "Ok, please hold on a minute m'am, before I get your address would you please give me your insurance provider's number?"

Caller: "I don't have it, I've locked myself in the bathroom."

911: "I'm sorry m'am, in that case I'm going to redirect your call to the other police, maybe they can stop by tomorrow or something. That will also run you $7,000 for a home visit."

Can you imagine THAT situation? Why should health care be any different???

[Alice]

Really great post, I totally agree... This kind of thing just really baffles me, and I guess having lived in France for the past five years now, I've started to take things for granted. There is a small portion of some doctor's (specialists) visits that I have to pay for, but overall my appointments are reimbursed, and I know that I'm very lucky to have this...

My older brother is in law school in the States, and he also works part-time in a law office to make a decent living. But his employer can't pay for any health insurance for him, so he can't get any care! How DARE someone say that people are just lazy and aren't working and therefore shouldn't be allowed to have healthcare? In this case, my brother is working his BUTT off in school AND at work, but if he has a dental problem, or gets pretty sick (which he has in the past year or so) he doesn't have ANY COVERAGE! It just isn't right... And it makes my blood boil. He is a hard worker, and yet fragile on a health level, and he deserves to be able to take care of himself, just as much as the next person.

Of course I know there are always going to be people who take advantage of a system, and there are unfortunately plenty of them in France. But the system works well overall, and balances out in the end. I hope and pray that we won't lose these advantages because of the people who spoil it for the rest of us by "cheating" or expecting others to carry the weight.

Like you said, Andie, healthcare should be a GIVEN, something that we are ALL entitled to as human beings, doing what we can to make a life for ourselves. Some of us have better luck than others, some of us get hit with some tough periods and bad luck (my boyfriend and his heart attack, for example -- who would have seen that coming?!?!), but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be able to be cared for in a decent way. I can't even imagine how we would have handled things if my boyfriend hadn't received good care in a hospital here...

On another note entirely, Andie: I didn't realize that when you were in the U.S. that if one of your kids got sick, you could bring them back to France for care, and that this would be covered -- I know this isn't a very practical or ecological solution, but if push comes to shove and your child needs care, it's good to know! I do have a Spanish friend who lives in France -- she told me about when she was 7 months pregnant, how she was in Spain and they thought she was going to have to go into early labor. After calling her doctor in France, they told her that she could still be brought home in a hospital plane and be cared for in a hospital here! And she said it was covered for by her insurance... I couldn't believe it, but what a relief to know it was possible... She ended up giving birth to a baby girl who is 13 years old today and beautiful!

[Tony]

When did I ever say that anyone was lazy? The word lazy never came out of my mouth. How dare someone call them lazy? Andie was the one who called a person without a job lazy. Check the posts, I NEVER said anyone who didn't work was lazy.

I said if you can work and need healthcare coverage, then get a job. Andie, why would you expect the US to pay for your healthcare when you're here visiting? Really? Maybe I should expect the Thai government to take care of Beth and I on our honeymoon. Or the UAE to take care of us when I'm in Dubai. They should also give me a free hotel, free car rental, and free food during my stay. Right? I am owed that. I deserve that. I expect that.

Let's not forget, I am talking about the United States. I live in the United States. If you live in France, Germany, South Africa, Thailand, or anywhere else and want to talk about what you want to do for your health care system, feel free. But don't tell me what to do with mine. If you are an American and live overseas and don't pay American taxes, but want universal healthcare for Americans, then I ask you to please put a check in the mail payable to the IRS to pay for it. I don't tell you how you should spend your money, don't tell me how to spend mine.

[Tara]

I totally agree w/you Andie and I think we are the very few in Texas that do. Bert had back surgery about a month ago and if he didn't have health insurance we would had to pay $75,000. Even with insurance we are having to fight for everything almost, and we have had to pay over $7500 this year out of pocket just to try to manage his pain. It's crazy. Why is health care now a privilege and not a right? The republican candidates are talking about making all health care individual and taking the "burden" off the shoulders of the companies we work for. This scares the crap out of me. It's sad when we would rather suffer than go see a doctor because we are scared of the bills.

[andie]

I expect to be taken care of in my country because I am a citizen. If a French citizen comes back to France after living abroad, Social Security covers him. E's friend Bruno is a prime example of that. He hadn't lived in France in 11 years and came back to get treatment for his terminal cancer- paid for 100 percent here. No, I don't expect Thailand to pay for your health to be taken care of, you are not a citizen of that country. However, I might point out that if you are traveling to France and you get hurt, you won't have to pay a dime. And, I might also like to point out that should Gab or Louise get hurt at anytime during any of our stays in the US, their health is way more important to me and instead of paying thousands of dollars that we don't have the money for, we would ask to be repatriated to France. Healthcare shouldn't divide families. It shouldn't even be a worry. (Oh, and Alice, it's the MAIF who will reexpatriate you back to France, it's called intermutuelle assistance or something for emergencies abroad)

And, I might point out right here, I don't mind if I am not covered by health insurance when I come home, but I do mind when I have to pay hundreds of dollars for a doctor's visit. I have never paid more than 45 euros for a doctor's visit here and prescriptions are affordable even if you didn't have insurance ( Zyrtec, for example, you are paying 10 dollars a month here and that's without the help of the insurance, in the US, it's 100). When I take the kids, it's 25 euros for a normal practitioner who practices in the most expensive city in France. That's how much most people pay for co-pay in the US. Of course, I am reimbursed for that amount but I wouldn't mind paying that for 15 min. of looking into my ear but not 125 dollars! Something it completely, and totally wrong there.

To clarity, if I did say that someone was lazy because they didn't find a job, I never meant that. A lot of people can't find work or are unemployed for various reasons- we've all been there (at least I have) and there is no reason to call someone without a job lazy. In fact, I was unemployed when I had Gab and was able to be in one of the best clinics in Paris and got a 5 day hospital stay if I wanted!

It's just about the mentality. As soon as we start thinking about ourselves and not about society as a whole, there's no wonder why the world has turned out the way it has. But, I do agree with Tony in that it would be very difficult to change the majority of Americans' ideas about universal health. From its creation, the United States has been more individualistic than socialistic.

[Lynda]

Interesting post. I agree that healthcare should be a given but where I am unsure is whether that is basic healthcare and what that should include. Should it also include treatment for e.g. infertility. Any country will only have so much to allocate to spending on healthcare and then tough decisions will have to be made e.g. if we cover ivf then we can't cover perhaps a cancer treatment. And should new and perhaps unproven treatments be covered. It becomes complex. Also a small point, I lived in France for a year and it's not true to say it's free -you normally pay a percentage albeit small and most people have top up health insurance. I also lived in the UK and there it is free, however their health system cannot cope and is in a bit of a mess. No simple solution when it comes to the healthcare debate. I am always amazed though that the US, a very wealthy country, offers nothing to it's citizens and didn't Bush recently turn down a bill to provide healthcare to the most vulnerable children - shocking really.

[Beth]

Well, I'll offer my opinion on this as well. Here is my perspective from a person who worked at a job for awhile where I too was not given healthcare benefits for about 6 months to a teaching job where my insurance costs have gone up since I started working 6 months ago.

Given those two things, I still do not think universal healthcare is the best bet. There are so many other things going on in the healthcare industry that need to be fixed before we try to have the government start absorbing all the costs related to 300+ million people. I can't even imagine how much that would cost based on all the various health problems people can have. I honestly don't think the government could raise enough money to pay for that.

I am by no means an expert when it somes to the insurance industry, but I have to think part of the problem lies there. Doctors are charged through the roof for their malpractice insurance, so the doctors have to charge patients more to pay for this, then the patients turn to their insurance companies to pay for these visits. It's a vicious cycle of rising costs and cause and effect. How about some regulation or rules or whatever for insurance companies to bring down the costs related to healthcare.

Won't even get into the malpractice lawsuits, while some of them are legit and people have every right to be upset with the care they or family members received, there are those who take advantage and file lawsuits when they don't really need to.

I also wonder if universal healthcare would encourage or discourage those who want to become doctors, surgeons, researchers, etc. Doctors spend a lot of time and money on their schooling and come out with thousands upon thousands of dollars in loans. They have every right to make enough money to get themselves out of debt and be rewarded for their hard work. Whether you like it or not, people work to make money so they can support themselves and buy things they like and spend their money how they want to.

I understand that the healthcare system in France works well for them, but France is a lot smaller than the US and the US has a lot of other issues going on with healthcare that have more to do with the costs of things. Lets solve that before we try to have the government paying these costs.

[Caroline]

Numbers talk for themselves. Part of what makes the health insurance so expensive in the US is the fact that there is a HUGE overhead. It costs twice as much per insured head in the US than in any country that has a universal health care system. Why? Because money is used to do stuff that have nothing to do anything with care: process claims, do advertisement, have a department to develop models for premiums etc. Pretty much, money spent on the fact that some people are excluded. A lot of these costs go away if everybody is entitled to care. Medicare is a good example with an overhead of 1%, one of the best one. The problem with Medicare is that it doesn't cover enough not that it is poorly run. If the US had a system that was akin to *you name one country that has universal health care*, not only would everybody be insured, but *you* pay less money for your premiums as well since 1/6 of the country is uninsured and you would realize a savings of 1/2 on the 5/6 currently insured people. I think that people are not realizing that. A lot of arguments about what is right and wrong aside, cost-wise it is more efficient to have universal health care. Also, you are currently paying for uninsured using the ER for example.

Like Andie, healthcare will be a huge issue for me during these elections. Especially when I think about when I get older and retire. Very few company will offer retiree health insurance in 30yrs...

[karina]

@Beth: Maybe like not going to war and spending billions of dollars??? Sounds good to me.

I agree with a lot of people that it is hard to change a system, but it is worse to not WANT to change just because something is difficult. That leaves you in a big rut. People need to get a hold of the mentality that someone should not be denied basic healthcare just because they can't pay.

It is inhumane.

[Tony]

Great correlation between healthcare in the United States and the war in Iraq. Because healthcare was fine before the war and ever since George W. screwed everything up, America has hit rock bottom.

Before Iraq, everyone had healthcare, life was good. No one was dying b/c of a lack of medical attention.

Right? Isn't that what you're implying with your idiotic "Maybe like not going to war and spending billions of dollars??? " statement?

Sounds good to me.

In fact, I would argue that the United States is probably the only industrialized country in the world with problems.

I have no idea why people keep trying to come here illegally. They're all idiots. Why would you ever want to come to such a crappy country with so many problems. Man I wish we could go back to the nineties. That's when America was good. No starving children. No murders. No accidental bombings of pharmaceutical factories in other countries. Okay well that happened, but it was an accident. Everyone had healthcare.

Oh wait, you mean healthcare was a problem before evil George Bush took office? REALLY?!?!?!? I thought George W. ruined America?

I completely agree that everyone deserves basic healthcare and shouldn't be turned away. That's why if you have a problem and show up at a hospital, you won't be turned away. It's against American law to turn anyone away anyone who doesn't have insurance or a way to pay for something.

You're right, it's inhumane and that's why it's illegal to do it.

But I don't understand why people even go to the doctor in the US. There are 36 other countries out there that are far superior than the United States in healthcare. I'd be interested to know where some of those doctors in those superior countries get their education. I'm sure it's not the United States.

[Brent]

Great article! I've worked in the medical field for just over 20years now here in Indiana, to answer your question, just over 10years ago is when healthcare became big business. But one thing to remember - It is not only the insurance companies driving this huge cost in healthcare ( but they are the main part ), but also remember the medical supply business's. It is staggering the cost we pay for equipment and supplies. When I tell people I work in the Medical field, they assume I make a lot of income - It's not bad, but considering what we pay to insurance companies and supply houses, it's nothing. And I agree with you - once I have enough money to convert to Euro, I plan on trying to move to France myself. It's really sad - our government is forcing us out of the New World.

[andie]

I can speak for all of the doctors I've seen in France, one of whom happens to be my own mother-in-law who is a retired doctor, and not one did their medical school in the United States. In fact, the OB/GYN who helped deliver Louise did his medical school in Tunisia- wonderful doctor, very well educated. Bruno, Etienne's friend who had terminal cancer, went to the top oncologist in Paris who was able to give him the best, top of the line chemo which was experimental and prolonged his life in good conditions by 6 months. This doctor did his medical school in Costa Rica. Diplomas in universities like Harvard or Yale medical school are not coveted here, the US still doesn't have a global influence for education in the middle classes and there are hundreds of countries in the world with equivalent medical training. We are hoping (and praying!) that our kids will choose to stay in France for their university studies as the education is arguably the same and, at the Sorbonne where I got my Master's, even more based on the educational values of some of the Ivy League schools than OU, but it was a lot cheaper: I paid 200 dollars for my master's degree. Of course, you don't have the fancy campuses with the football stadiums and the student union buildings but if the education is the same underneath, does the facade have to be the same?

I don't think the implication is that before the war and Bush the US was thriving, but the question is about the importance of cost- if we can spend millions on working out the problems of another country, why can't we spend the same on working out the problems of our own country.

Have you been to Mexico and seen some of their living conditions? Compared to their misery, the US looks good and unfortunately, you are right, an immigrant coming to the US doesn't probably see the problems behind the consumerist forces driving them to come to the US. All they see is the dollar and that one dollar will stretch a lot more than a peso and that maybe with those dollars, they will be able to buy shelter they couldn't afford in Mexico. They see that this ability to buy could maybe bring them out of their slump but what they don't see is that it might paradoxically cause their downfall as well and that life isn't a bowl of cherries when they get over the border. Either they are shot crossing, drown, or remain in poverty in the US because for a dollar earned, they also have to take care of their families to provide healthcare but they can't because they are illegal and even if they saved up the money to get medical help, they would be turned in.

[Caroline]

Well, don't know about you Tony, but at my HMO, most of the general practioners did not do their studies in the US. Among the americans, very few did their studies at good US medical schools. Usually, there are schools I have never heard of. It doesn't mean they are bad doctors, I just don't get your point about whether doctors in France are educated in the US. Well, duh, no! US medicine is not the only one to be good in the world. If you want to separate some siamese twins, then, yes, you probably want to be in the US, but for most procedures for most people, I don't think that there is much of a difference.

Personally, I much prefer my doctors in France, and I try to go there when I go back, but when I need care in the US or had to deliver my baby, I am not going to France... That is why I have health insurance in the US.

Tony, in particular, I just wished that you could understand why universal health care is a good thing. If you had experienced a universal heath care system, I would be willing to be that you would feel differently about it and about its benefits. I am not sure why people have such a negative view of it in the US. All the "rumors" (you have to wait so long, and so on are not true. And if you have ever tried to get an appointment with a specialist in the US, it can take a long long time!) are just not true. To me, it feels a lot like propaganda.

Also, people have this view that health care in France is completely free. This is not true. A part of Andie's salary goes away for healthcare/retirement/etc and there is an employer contribution as well. Essentially, both you and your employer pay a premium to a "health company" which happens to be the government. Also, Andie is speaking about MAIF. This is not the basic health insurance. This is a complementary health insurance that is paid additionally (either by you or your employer, I don't know) and that allows you to be reimbursed more for each time you have to pay something. For instance, you go to the doctor, the "health insurance" reimburses you 70% of a fixed price [and you may pay way more than that price] and then your complementary insurance reimburses you the difference up to a threshold. If you travel, your complementary insurance covers you up to a limit indeed. However, you cannot take what MAIF offers as a general rule. Teachers are notoriously not making much money but they have excellent benefits, such as MAIF, which is also great for any type of insurance products (car, home, etc). Also, there there are different levels of insurance, and if you travel a lot, you can elect to buy more insurance to cover your trips. So, it is not like poor Pierre Martin has to slave away so that Andie gets medical insurance when she goes to the US. She pays to get that extra insurance in some ways. It is not standard.

[Caroline]

One more point. Tony thinks that he doesn't want to pay for somebody who doesn't have a job and health insurance when he works to get his own health insurance. Essentially, he doesn't want to subsidize somebody else's health insurance. Any way you look at it, right now, depending on how you buy your coverage (individual, through a company and its size and negociated deals, etc), your premiums are hugely different as is your coverage. So, even right now, you are essentially subsidizing people who are getting a sweet deal (like staff of the HMO, staff from companies that are very large and can negociate a much better deal than smaller companies and so on).

[Beth]

One more comment, Tony is not dumb enough to think that all doctors are educated in the US and they are the best doctors to ever live. He was just trying to make the point that there are some people who come from other countries to go to med school in the US. Just like people come from other countries to go to college here. While it's not the majority of med students in the US, there is a sizable percentage of them. Maybe some go back home, maybe some stay in the US. Who knows. I have only seen doctors who were educated in the US. Maybe thats because I live in Texas where some of the best medical schools are based. Tony never said that people can't get a good education elsewhere. That would be pretty narrow minded because there are good doctors everywhere.

The point about people having to wait for treatment is not a rumor. My mom works with a woman with a close relative in Canada where the husband needs a total knee replacement. He cannot even walk at this point because his knee is just bone on bone. Well, sorry, he can't get treatment for 3 YEARS because the surgeons are only allowed to do a certain number per year. The man won't be able to walk for 3 years. That doesn't sound very humane to me where if he lived in the US, he could get the surgery tomorrow. Don't know how different Canada's healthcare is the France's...I'm sure they aren't the same, but I don't think anyone in the US wants something like that to happen.

I'm all for more affordable healthcare and making premiums lower so more people can afford their own insurance. But people should have choices as to what insurance company they use and search for the plan that's best for them.

While Tony & I are the only ones on here who are not in favor of the idea of universal healthcare, don't make us out to be people who are selfish and don't care about others. Most of you don't even know us. We have our opinions like you have yours and we don't feel the way we do beacuse we don't want people to get healthcare and don't care what happens to our poor, jobless, etc. in our country. We just feel there are other options than universal healthcare.

The beauty of it is, if you live in the US (or are a citizen), you cast your vote for your elected officials and after that, it's over on your part. If your candidate wins, then I hope that they're able to live up the their promises that made you vote for them in the first place. A lot of times that doesn't happen though...whether its a Republican or Democrat that you like. In reality, we are not the policy makers and the only time our opinions are really officially counted are during elections. So vote for who you want and eventually we'll see how things change because we all know that they will. Things are not perfect now and everyone realizes that.

[andie]

In France, no one would ever have to wait a month let alone 3 years for major surgery. But, that's just France. Every country has its downfalls, and countries with socialized medicine aren't excluded from that. Do you not realize that some people would have to wait a lifetime in the US for this type of surgery because they don't even have a way to pay for insurance?

What you don't see is that we, in France, have a choice. I can go see whatever doctor I want, whatever specialist I want, 10 times in a row if I want. The hospital where I delivered Louise is the number one private maternity in Paris and I had the choice to go somewhere private or to a public hospital (which is where I delivered Gab and it was excellent). Your employer offers you extra coverage, usually around 50 euros a month sometimes that fee is even waived, to have extra benefits and you can search for the plan that best suits you for dental and optical. Don't confuse socialized medicine with lack of choice. In some countries, like Britain, socialized medicine has gotten a bad reputation for its long waiting lines and lack of choice but here, in France, I can speak for my experience and I have never once not been able to choose where I want to go for medical help. It works really well here. Sure, the maternity wards are not the posh Women's Labor centers you see in the US but I also didn't get kicked out after 2 days (because my insurance wouldn't pay for me to stay longer to recover), could stay up to a week if I wanted and could have had my own private nurse come and help with Gab or Louise for the first month after their birth. I was also able to prevent premature birth in both cases by being stopped from work and put on bedrest and closely monitored the last 3 months of both pregnancies. My salary was taken care of by Social security. I don't know of any HMO that would have allowed that. Most women I know in the US who have had babies work up to a week before they are due! This is just unfathomable to me.

I'm just glad I'm in a country that gives us to much choice with our medical needs and not in a place where an HMO limits who you can go to see (much of the same problems Britain is experiencing, only the US is private, Britain is socialized)

Not saying France is the best country in the world. There is no best country for any one thing and there are definitely things to criticize everywhere. I am just saying that I feel I am in the country that has the best healthcare system in the world and feel very fortunate.